Stop taking this like some personal persecution complex. None of us here are "out to get you" on any level. All of us here have been more than helpful to the many who have posted here over the years that Jim Martin has had this site up and running.

But if you come here with a flag and have little to back it up other than it somewhat resembles an existing flag with rock-solid provenance and claim it to be the flag of EW Rucker's Brigade taken at the barricades south of Nashville on December, 16th, 1864 then you better have the same style of rock-solid provenance if you expect this list - or any good flag historian or collector - to "buy" what you are offering.

So far you have offered nothing of this sort. Even if you come up with the name of the Confederate color bearer that this flag was taken from that day so we can then check what unit he was with will not prove that your flag is the flag in question. Thus no "checkmate" as you stated above. What that will do, instead, is conclusively prove what unit lost the flag that day - but the flag has not been located. The OR accounts state that Gen Hatch ended up with it at day's end - and it may well be in his family today.

If you can tie this flag to Gen. Hatch then you will have advanced your argument a great deal. If you can provide vivid accounts of your flag being at the barricades that day complete with descriptions of it through any of the sources that I have stated ad nauseum then you will have advanced your case. If you can even prove that this flag was the inspiration for the flag from Aberdeen and even pre-dates that flag, then you will have advanced your case. If you can prove that this flag had anything to do with Rucker and was with him at the barricades then you will have advanced your case.

This is identical to what the Citadel people are doing - they have a red palmetto flag that they are convinced was the flag at Morris Island in 1861 when they have no shred of evidence to prove it other than conjecture and the rejecting of responses from the flag experts they submitted their queries to over time just to prove their point without any solid basis whatsoever.

I have mentioned a First National flag taken by a soldier in the 27th Illinois who signed the flag with his name and unit number but not where he took it. My best guess, based on the unit's early war career, was in the Island No. 10 Campaign, but lacking any definitive proof the best that I can state for this flag is that it was "maybe" taken in that campaign. The 27th Illinois and this soldier served in the whole war so there were indeed other opportunities for its capture. What leads me to lean towards Island No. 10 is that the 27th Illinois were the first Union unit to set foot on that island where we know other flags were taken. They were also part of Buford's Brigade that attacked the 7th Tennessee Cavalry and 21st Tennessee Infantry at their camps at Union City, TN where a number of flags were taken. But I have no definitive proof and until I do all this is an educated guess at best.

That's how it works Ben.

None of us are ganging up on you here other than to defend our collective arguments which are often attacked by sarcasm, a constant berating of us as experts/historians since none of us have owned 40 flags (or whatever) over the years, etc. We all welcome your posts here but would appreciate a nicer tone to them and, if your claims are not supported by complete evidence - just as the claims of anyone else who posts here (including me) - then do not be surprised if we all become Missourians and state "show me!"

Greg Biggs